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> Guylhem Rom: First Qtopia 1.5 Release
hbo
post May 15 2005, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ May 15 2005, 01:12 PM)
last time I checked all the patches were on externe.net/zaurus/kernel , I think.

The binaries got posted in /flash/.....  and there were separate parallel dirs with source and patches.

If the current set isn't up yet, I am assuming it will be.  Have a look. 

*


I'm not worried about that. A lag between current binaries and posted source is a technical violation of the GPL, but I assume it's all in good faith, particularly if it doesn't go on too long.

Using a public VC system gets you out of trouble there, of course.

QUOTE
I think the troll was about opera, etc in the Qtpalmtop.rom not having source posted. I take that to be more of a fair use issue, as it doesn't pretend to be anyting but sharprom on a nand resize, and anyone with a 6k is entitled to use sharprom.  afaik the patches that are actual new guylhm rom stuff get posted.
*


Well, that's interesting. Has he patched the Opera binary to use his keymap? I assume so. The legal and ethical questions you can argue about, but the practical problem is that we will all have to rely on Guylhem to do the patching for subsequent releases, or else do it ourselves with varying results. And if a new binary app comes out that allows for, say, immediate attraction of selected members of the appropriate gender, then we'll have to.. well, we probably wouldn't have to wait long for him to patch the keymap on that app. But you get the idea. That approach will not scale. It is guaranteed to make this project a backwater in the (already small) Zaurus community.

The custom keymap is far more trouble than the problem it's designed to solve, IMHO.
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hbo
post May 15 2005, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE(muesli321 @ May 15 2005, 02:32 PM)
Saying oh here is the great SDK and OE should have provided that in the first place where the binaries are clearly illegal warezed. The SDK fails to comply with GNU licenses (not even considering the proprietary bits in it). It fails to answer under which license resulting code has to fail. Does that Qtopia code allow commercial development at all?
Is that the 150$ SDK from Trolltech?
And I really hope it is obvious why OpenEmbedded or handhelds.org can't host nor provide such illegal binary blobs.

*


Here are the top 24 lines of the LICENSE file in the root of the Qtopia.tgz on externe.net:

CODE
The Qtopia Environment is Copyright (C) 2000-2001 Trolltech AS and
 other authors as specified in the file headers.

You may use, distribute and copy the Qtopia Environment under the terms
of GNU General Public License version 2, which is displayed below.

Sharp SDK is copyrighted by Sharp and *not* released under the GPL.
So please try to avoid using libsl and libdtm unless you application
absolutely *requires* it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
                      Version 2, June 1991

Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
                         675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA
Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

                           Preamble


So, under the GPL, he has the right to redistribute, no?
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adf
post May 15 2005, 03:38 PM
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it's alaska, not arkansas. I have no idea if the cereal ever made it here or not... I was a kid in NY in the 70's, and I thought tbhe cereal tasted like sweetened fiberboard smile.gif

I agree that making something that doesn't scale is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot. But what essential bit of the rom is a patched binary? and if it exists is it something that is there as a fixture or more as a placeholder in a proof-of-concept thing with the intent to be relpaced asap?

what exactly are we talking about here? the keyboard fix in Qtopia? Qtopia 1.5 isn't slated to be the gui for this rom for very long. Hopefully 2.1 presents a better prospect in this regard.
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hbo
post May 15 2005, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ May 15 2005, 03:38 PM)
it's alaska, not arkansas. I have no idea if the cereal ever made it here or not... I was a kid in NY in the 70's, and I thought tbhe cereal tasted like sweetened fiberboard smile.gif
*


Shoot. I was born in Alaska and I didn't recognize the abbreviation. We moved to California when I was five, so I guess I can forgive myself. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
I agree that making something that doesn't scale is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot. But what essential bit of the rom is a patched binary? and if it exists is it something that is there as a fixture or more as a placeholder in a proof-of-concept thing with the intent to be relpaced asap?

what exactly are we talking about here? the keyboard fix in Qtopia? Qtopia 1.5 isn't slated to be the gui for this rom for very long.  Hopefully 2.1 presents a better prospect in this regard.
*


No, it's the apps. According to what I understand, the kernel has a modified keymap, so all the apps have to be patched to work with it. That's why fbvnc and fbvncserver have screwed up keymapping. They aren't patched for the g-rom kernel. For applications where you have the source, you can change the mapping and recompile. But for binaries, the only way is to patch the binary, which I'm supposing Guylhem has done. (I'd still be pleased to be proven wrong about that.) Actually, I'd write a shim along the lines of kbdsim that would map the old style to the new style keycodes. That way you wouldn't have to modify the binary apps. If that were the default mode, then you could use all the rest of the world's apps unchanged, and also provide some that could use full PC keyboard, by telling the shim to get out of the way.
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adf
post May 15 2005, 04:01 PM
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now for something completely different.

remember how early in the qtopia 2.1 releases there were complaints that it was slow??

apparently sharp had optimized libqpe 1.5 for the 6k?


wellllll I was tarring up 2.1 for this rom and just happened to see..amidst al the lib Blah.2.1.so stuff a linqpe-1.5.3.so. I wonder...

anyway it is straight and unmodified frm TT
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hbo
post May 15 2005, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ May 15 2005, 04:01 PM)
now for something completely different.

remember how early in the qtopia 2.1 releases there were complaints that it was slow??

apparently sharp had optimized libqpe 1.5 for the 6k?


wellllll I was tarring up 2.1 for this rom and just happened to see..amidst al the lib Blah.2.1.so stuff a linqpe-1.5.3.so. I wonder...

anyway it is straight and unmodified frm TT
*


I'm new to development on the Z. Where are you getting Qtopia 2.1? All I see for download at qtopia.com is the 1.7 stuff.
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adf
post May 15 2005, 05:02 PM
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there is a thread on it around here somewhere....

hit "view new posts"... it should show up smile.gif

edit: find it here:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/users/downloads.php
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hbo
post May 15 2005, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ May 15 2005, 05:02 PM)


Kewl!

Thanks! biggrin.gif
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adf
post May 15 2005, 05:28 PM
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it is pretty nice. would be better on guylhem's base, imho. --toss 1.5 entirely if we can use this smile.gif

let me know if you get opera working. The problem is almost certainly that the opera ipk expects a different diectory structure than is to be found in 2.1 incidentally, this is built on the OZ that nx is supposed to work with...

edit: the tarball of /opt/Qtopia (it is qtopia and not QtPalmtop on this rom is here. it will untar to give you /opt in the tree, though, so stuff will have to be moved around a little.

http://www.anyerlildog2.com/zug/
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hbo
post May 15 2005, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ May 15 2005, 05:28 PM)
it is pretty nice.  would be better on guylhem's base, imho. --toss 1.5 entirely if we can use this smile.gif

let me know if you get opera working.  The problem is almost certainly that the opera ipk expects a different diectory structure than is to be found in 2.1  incidentally, this is built on the OZ that nx is supposed to work with...

*


I wondered about that as soon as I saw the notice that they had built on top of "a fairly stable version of OZ." biggrin.gif

QUOTE
edit: the tarball of /opt/Qtopia (it is qtopia and not QtPalmtop on  this rom is here.  it will untar to give you /opt in the tree, though, so stuff will have to be moved around a little.

http://www.anyerlildog2.com/zug/
*


Given the possibility of running NX (which I use to access work) I think I'll just load that puppy up directly.

Thanks again! I'll let you know about Opera. (But I see the IBM "multimodal" version is at the same dload site alongside this ROM. I wonder ..)
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adf
post May 15 2005, 06:01 PM
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I tried the multimodal. said it installed....and nothing. a directory issue, as it has been all along in OZ, I suspect.
the solution would be probably to edit the ipk and tell it to install to places that actually exist. MrSquishy did that for opera 7.55 from multimodal for OZ 3.5.2, (it doesn't work on 2.1, though..so things are probably a little different) advancedfm from cacko and other stuff seem tom install just fine, so this should be workable. I tried to install nx..had the same experience as opera..which tells me almost nothing.

keep us posted as you go smile.gif
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adf
post May 15 2005, 06:25 PM
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Missed something earlier...

the apps are not modified. i pulled opera 7.25. and installed the multimodal in G-rom 0.9 worked perfectly.

there are just one or two apps (both open afaik--irk and fbvnc) that I know of that are borked.

What has been done is guylhem changed the keymap in the kernel, then modified the one in qtopia to work with it it... so no apps have been touched, and those slated to be touched are gpl and can be.

the binary hacking issue is a chimaera. no such thing is happening, and the modified maps are posted and documented.

Glad that got straight smile.gif
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hbo
post May 15 2005, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ May 15 2005, 06:25 PM)
Missed something earlier...

the apps are not modified.  i pulled opera 7.25. and installed the multimodal in G-rom 0.9 worked perfectly.

there are just one or two apps (both open afaik--irk and fbvnc) that I know of that are borked.

What has been done is guylhem changed the keymap in the kernel, then modified the one in qtopia to work with it it... so no apps have been touched, and those slated to be touched are gpl and can be.

the binary hacking issue is a chimaera.  no such thing is happening, and the modified maps are posted and documented.

Glad that got straight smile.gif
*


That's certainly better than I thought. Thanks.

I still have some concern because of the possibility that "Joe Random Application" may not work with guylhem out of the box due to the unique keymap. That puts a support burden on the producers of distributions relying on that kernel, and that's a barrier to scalability. It's not as large as the one thrown up by patching binaries, though.
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adf
post May 15 2005, 06:54 PM
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true enough, but if the apps use the keymaps on the system, rather than do shortcuts, it should be fine. I think the only place we see trouble is io "adapter" apps --fbvnc and irk that handle keymaps internally in some way.

more problems along these lines would be a concern, sure.... but I doubt there will be very many of them.

and in zaurus world "joe random app" probably has issues of some kind on most roms. I'd say that this was part of the beauty of OZ, but pretty often OZ apps don't work on OZ, even when they are included in the rom. It gets annoying.
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adf
post May 16 2005, 12:24 PM
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(since i was already clear on guylhem's last post)

hbo... how did you put 2.1 on your system?

were you runing G-rom w/qtopia 1.5 and did an update? or did you untar the qtopia i tarred up yesterday? or did you just update a generic sharprom to check out 2.1?
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