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> Might Want To Avoid The C1000, Dying C1000s
wiredog
post May 26 2005, 05:12 AM
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A few days ago the C1000 crashed with a 'memory low' error and wouldn't reboot. The maintenance menus wouldn't work properly. Selecting option '4' would reload the kernel, but selecting any other option just rebooted it. No way to do a NAND restore or even restore the factory initrd.bin. Eventually we were able to get an 'updater.sh' script going that would get us to a console, which showed us that /home wasn't mounting. Apparently it couldn't find the part of the flash that /home is on, or possibly that part of the flash had been scrambled by something.

Today we experienced the issue discussed in this thread. Plug it in, get no light. Won't start. Swapping batteries with the C3000 has no effect. That is, the C1000 (with the battery from the C3000 in it) is still dead and the C3000 (with the battery from the C1000) still runs fine.

From looking at the above referenced thread, and some others, this looks like a not too uncommon problem.
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offroadgeek
post May 26 2005, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE(wiredog @ May 26 2005, 05:12 AM)
A few days ago the C1000 crashed with a 'memory low' error and wouldn't reboot.  The maintenance menus wouldn't work properly.  Selecting option '4' would reload the kernel, but selecting any other option just rebooted it.  No way to do a NAND restore or even restore the factory initrd.bin.  Eventually we were able to get an 'updater.sh' script going that would get us to a console, which showed us that /home wasn't mounting. Apparently it couldn't find the part of the flash that /home is on, or possibly that part of the flash had been scrambled by something. 

Today we experienced the issue discussed in this thread. Plug it in, get no light.  Won't start.  Swapping batteries with the C3000 has no effect.  That is, the C1000 (with the battery from the C3000 in it) is still dead and the C3000 (with the battery from the C1000) still runs fine. 

From looking at the above referenced thread, and some others, this looks like a not too uncommon problem.
*

I think your post might cause undue doubt among prospective 1000 buyers. How many of these dead 1000's have been eventually restored back to normal operation by the user? How many of these dead 1000's have been shipped back to the place where it was purchased or to japan for repair?
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jamesm
post May 26 2005, 07:10 AM
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I can only speak as a prospective buyer and say that I have decided to spend a few extra dollars and get the 3000 instead of the 1000. My decision is based partly on the internal microdrive and partly on the reports from this forum of the 1000 dying so frequently.

Importing this machine to the UK means that even if I went through a company like Dynamism who look after the warranty, I would still be vulnerable because its such a long way to send anything back that breaks. I am not prepared to take that chance so will be buying the 3000 as it appears to be the more reliable model.
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albertr
post May 26 2005, 07:21 AM
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wiredog,

I understand your frustration with getting an expensive brick out of a brand new C1K, but this issue seems to be relatively new and not well undrstood. I would hold my judgement before more info is learned.

Has anyone tried to hook up a serial cable and see if bootloader spits any error messages?
-albertr
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TRIsoft
post May 26 2005, 09:43 AM
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Hi everybody,

i guess it's time for a statement.

In May 2005 we have sold about 200 SL-C1000 so far.
Let's count the defects and customer complaints: ... ZERO

A lot of our customers also read this forum regularily, so
you can believe the no-defect-number (otherwise this
thread would grow fast laugh.gif ).

On the other hand we had the first SL-C3000 with a defective
MicroDrive this month. But also this one don't scares us smile.gif

It's definitely wrong to say the SL-X is less reliable than the
SL-Y model. All Zauris are reliable and we have nearly zero
warranty problems.

But for sure it depends on what you do and how you care about
your Zaurus. Most dead Zauris are killed due to improper power
supplies (can't repeat it often enough) or with interesting
experimental Roms. Also some SL-C860 died after excessive
overclocking.

We also had some funny looking devices from self importers.
We don't know where the exporter got's his Zauris from, but
these were never new ones. So if you consider a self import,
have a close look on your partner if the price is too "interesting".

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
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wiredog
post May 26 2005, 09:44 AM
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It doesn't even start. No power light when plugged in. It's been RMA'd.

The C3000 works fine. We've been beating the heck out of that thing and it still runs. Trying new kernels, adding lots of software, reflashing multiple times. No problems yet. I suspect (given that some other C1000's have died with these symptoms) that there's a bad part on the mobo. Sharp probably got a bad batch of $0.01 capacitors or something, and they all went into one run of the C1000.

These things happen. I used to work in industrial automation programming and once my employer spent a few thousand dollars because a $5 relay went bad.
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lpotter
post May 26 2005, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE(wiredog @ May 27 2005, 03:44 AM)
It doesn't even start.  No power light when plugged in.  It's been RMA'd.

*


This happens often with Zaurus (5000d, 5500, c700, 6000 and now c3000). and in my experience it has been easy to fix, (although causes a panic!). Hit reset button. Take power off, take battery out for about 5-10 minutes. put battery in, power cord in - leave for 10 minutes.

In all my experience with Zaurus (about 4 years now! eeekk!), and several times when the various Zaurus I work with seem "dead", this has worked.
In fact, this worked just yesterday on the c3000.
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gdog
post May 26 2005, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE(TRIsoft @ May 26 2005, 05:43 PM)
Hi everybody,

i guess it's time for a statement.

In May 2005 we have sold about 200 SL-C1000 so far.
Let's count the defects and customer complaints: ... ZERO

A lot of our customers also read this forum regularily, so
you can believe the no-defect-number (otherwise this
thread would grow fast  laugh.gif ).

On the other hand we had the first SL-C3000 with a defective
MicroDrive this month. But also this one don't scares us  smile.gif

It's definitely wrong to say the SL-X is less reliable than the
SL-Y model. All Zauris are reliable and we have nearly zero
warranty problems.

But for sure it depends on what you do and how you care about
your Zaurus. Most dead Zauris are killed due to improper power
supplies (can't repeat it often enough) or with interesting
experimental Roms. Also some SL-C860 died after excessive
overclocking.

We also had some funny looking devices from self importers.
We don't know where the exporter got's his Zauris from, but
these were never new ones. So if you consider a self import,
have a close look on your partner if the price is too "interesting".

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
*


As we all know computers are funny things. Without knowing the state of the system when the problem(s) occurred, as well as anything that had been done to it between the time it was first turned on by the user and the point in time when the problems began, there is just no way that one can accurately lay the blame on the model itself.
We have so many "mad scientists" (albeit brilliant ones), doing so many exotic mods to these things that it only stands to reason that failures will result. What surprises me the most is how well they hold up statistically, given the things that are being done to them. I'm not sticking up for Sharp here, because I'm still miffed at them for turning their corporate backs on the good ole U. S. of A. But to be fair when you take a device that was designed and then mated to a specific OS, and then start seeing problems when the marriage is broken, should we blame Sharp or the device? Personally I think not. But then I'm neither a mad scientist nor brilliant, so no flame wars please. Just statiing my $.02.

Best Regards,

gdog

OH and btw, I did not buy my Z from Trisoft, nor have I ever done business with them. Just so happens that I've been around for awhile and see so many similar stories like this, and because I seldom take my device into the lab and have a go at it, I seldom see the problems that are reported by those who do.
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JoP
post May 26 2005, 02:31 PM
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I basically agree with gdog.

A couple of days ago while I was surfing the web on my C1000 I got a low batt advice and then I pushed the batt a bit further. Then it died. Took out wifi card and it wouldn't turn on. Plugged power cord and still no answer from on/off button. sad.gif
Took battery out, put it back in, pushed GENTLY on/off button and it rebooted. Phew, cool.gif
It actually this happened twice, tho I don't remember if the other time I was on wifi.

Just don't push too hard on/off button. For what I've read I can in fact stick in and who knows what this could cause. (I guess some japanese engineer might now tongue.gif )
I discovered my Z is not deaf and it just needs a soft push on the button to respond. It just needs a second or two to react.
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Stubear
post May 26 2005, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE(wiredog @ May 26 2005, 10:12 PM)
Today we experienced the issue discussed in this thread. Plug it in, get no light.  Won't start.  Swapping batteries with the C3000 has no effect.  That is, the C1000 (with the battery from the C3000 in it) is still dead and the C3000 (with the battery from the C1000) still runs fine. 
*


The user in the thread you link to overwrote his updater partiton with an ext2 copy of the root partition!

This is not a C1000 problem this is a PEBKAC.

The page where the user got their "instructions" doesn't even mention what model Z they were repairing, but the user blindly tried them on his new C1000 (from the links on the page it seems the Z in question was a 5500)

Stu
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duhbert
post May 27 2005, 07:41 AM
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I must admit that the problem now is apparently my mis-formatting of the 'updater partition' (although I can only cry silently in my head "what the heck is this??"). But still the 'booting lockup' thing is unexplained and totally unexpected to me as a beginner.

So it's a truly PEBKAC and please don't go overboard when looking at my thread. I am just caught in a very desperate situation and am asking for help. To start any bashing or flamming here is never my intention. That's that.

Then again, i hope the zaurus expert users can understand my situation: as an absolute zaurus/linux beginner, I don't even know what partition is inside the system, let alone updater partition, root partition, jff2, ext2, etc. I am not sure whether such info exists or it is accessible to newbies. And after days of trying and found no answer here (about failing to boot beyond the "Sharp" startup screen -- I am afraid I put it in a terrbile and laughable way but I can't do anything more), I googled for quite some hours and finally ran into that website saying how to revive a dead zaurus with almost the same symptom by entering his commands. I really can't tell what he and his page are up to, but i tried that out thinking (very foolishly) that: 1) many posts here say that zaurus is so robust that it's hard to kill it completely, and 2) this is the only solution I could find on the web so why not give it a go.

Yes, the zaurus/linux experts can just call me a problematic user and the main source of technical support nightmares. That's quite true from their perspective; but I can still tell a CD-Rom tray from a coffer holder. But I don't care. I am sincerely grateful to those offering detailed help and advice, and my zaurus learning process has just begun.

I would say playing zaurii outside Japan years ago must be limited to those who know a great deal of linux . But it seems things have changed over the years. Now the zaurus has become increasingly popular and there are more and more dummy users (lusers?) like me. As a palm users for years I can only say the zaurus is much more sophisticated (and imtimidating to me) than palm.

I have just sent away my zaurus to someone who have the expertise to investigate and hopefully fix the problem. If it will be certified to be dead, I would say this is also going to be the end of my zaurus experience. Why I bought C1000 is mainly because of its functionality, compact size and decent casing. If it turns out to be a luxurious permanent paperweight I'd say zaurus is not suitable for a particular type of idiots and I can only look for something else... sad.gif

And I may try to keep away from linux as possible as well.
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gdog
post May 27 2005, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE(duhbert @ May 27 2005, 03:41 PM)
I must admit that the problem now is apparently my mis-formatting of the 'updater partition' (although I can only cry silently in my head "what the heck is this??").  But still the 'booting lockup' thing is unexplained and totally unexpected to me as a beginner.

So it's a truly PEBKAC and please don't go overboard when looking at my thread.  I am just caught in a very desperate situation and am asking for help.  To start any bashing or flamming here is never my intention.  That's that.

Then again, i hope the zaurus expert users can understand my situation: as an absolute zaurus/linux beginner, I don't even know what partition is inside the system, let alone updater partition, root partition, jff2, ext2, etc.  I am not sure whether such info exists or it is accessible to newbies.  And after days of trying and found no answer here (about failing to boot beyond the "Sharp" startup screen -- I am afraid I put it in a terrbile and laughable way but I can't do anything more), I googled for quite some hours and finally ran into that website saying how to revive a dead zaurus with almost the same symptom by entering his commands.  I really can't tell what he and his page are up to, but i tried that out thinking (very foolishly) that: 1) many posts here say that zaurus is so robust that it's hard to kill it completely, and 2) this is the only solution I could find on the web so why not give it a go.

Yes, the zaurus/linux experts can just call me a problematic user and the main source of technical support nightmares.  That's quite true from their perspective; but I can still tell a CD-Rom tray from a coffer holder.  But I don't care.  I am sincerely grateful to those offering detailed help and advice, and my zaurus learning process has just begun. 

I would say playing zaurii outside Japan years ago must be limited to those who know a great deal of linux .  But it seems things have changed over the years.  Now the zaurus has become increasingly popular and there are more and more dummy users (lusers?) like me.  As a palm users for years I can only say the zaurus is much more sophisticated (and imtimidating to me) than palm. 

I have just sent away my zaurus to someone who have the expertise to investigate and hopefully fix the problem.  If it will be certified to be dead, I would say this is also going to be the end of my zaurus experience.  Why I bought C1000 is mainly because of its functionality, compact size and decent casing.    If it turns out to be a luxurious permanent paperweight I'd say zaurus is not suitable for a particular type of idiots and I can only look for something else... sad.gif

And I may try to keep away from linux as possible as well.
*



DO NOT BE TOO HARD ON YOURSELF. I've heard stories where folks have called in to tech support (not Sharp or Zaurus related) and asked how to get the fool pedal to work. When the tech questioned the caller a little further it became evident that the "Foot pedal" referred to was actually the mouse. And more than one tech has resovled problems by asking callers if they have actually plugged their systems into the wall yet. Computers are devices that can bring out the best in us, but more often bring out the worst, or at least the most foolish things about us. One of the first things I did when I got my first computer many years ago was format my boot disk (no hard drive on that model), because the book said that I should format my disks before trying to use them. It just failed to mention that it was not referring to the boot disk that made the little beast come to life.
Bottom line, we all do things with our computers that make us cry first and laugh later. Please pardon me if I said anything to made you feel bad about your particular situation.

Best regards,

gdog
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lareya
post May 27 2005, 02:30 PM
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I am newbie user also. I also had a little fear and trepidation when I first flashed my rom and held my breath. But the fact remains, these little machines are beautiful, but you need to read up first on what your are planning to do with your Z. I usually wait a while untill, I see the bugs are removed, and follow a few postings regularly when I am thinking of moving/changing things on my Z.

I love to tweak! and if i wanted just an organizer, I would have bought a palm device or HPPC - but I love to tinker and experiment and learn. So when I mess things up, I take a deep breath and just start over. But because I am a newbie, I always check the info I am reading regarding which Z, which Rom, needed libraries, types of hardware etc.,

I would never think of putting water in my car for fuel, and then think my car is at fault cuz it stops running, but I read the car manual first to see what the manufactor says is best for my car in fuel, check-ups etc., (end of stupid analogy). Since I am a female also, I am a newbie with cars - so the analogy works for me - it might go over the heads of you fellas out there. smile.gif

read and read this forum and google the web. You will be amazed what people are doing with their clever little machines. Soon you will be doing it too! I know cuz I am.

Lareya (satisfied Z user)
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Meanie
post May 27 2005, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE(lareya @ May 28 2005, 08:30 AM)
I am newbie user also.  I also had a little fear and trepidation when I first flashed my rom and held my breath.  But the fact remains, these little machines are beautiful, but you need to read up first on what your are planning to do with your Z.  I usually wait a while untill, I see the bugs are removed, and follow a few postings regularly when I am thinking of moving/changing things on my Z. 

I love to tweak! and if i wanted just an organizer, I would have bought a palm device or HPPC - but I love to tinker and experiment and learn.  So when I mess things up, I take a deep breath and just start over.  But because I am a newbie, I always check the info I am reading regarding which Z, which Rom, needed libraries, types of hardware etc.,   

I would never think of putting water in my car for fuel, and then think my car is at fault cuz it stops running, but I read the car manual first to see what the manufactor says is best for my car in fuel, check-ups etc., (end of stupid analogy).  Since I am a female also, I am a newbie with cars - so the analogy works for me - it might go over the heads of you fellas out there.  smile.gif

read and read this forum and google the web. You will be amazed what people are doing with their clever little machines. Soon you will be doing it too!  I know cuz I am.

Lareya (satisfied Z user)
*


well said lareya

I've had my Z for over 2 months now without any problems and quite happy with it, but I did almost brick it on the second day smile.gif

just a little warning, flashing your Z or doing any of those fancy mods to your partitions is almost like formatting your C: drive on your PC without having a Windows CD-ROM to reinstall if something goes wrong, if not a bit more dangerous (your Z doesn't even have a CD-ROM drive or floppy drive to boot from if its really broke)
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rob_figlabs
post May 30 2005, 10:52 AM
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Cheers lpotter - your instructions just saved my C1000 which had died!
This C1000 had undergone no flashing, resetting, fiddling - honest! Original Sharp ROM, couple of weeks old, not particularly stressed. Just wouldn't turn on when I went to show a friend what it could do. Still, it's working again now.
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