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> Sl-6000 Pocket Pc, ugly ugly
DrWowe
post Nov 29 2005, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE(adf @ Nov 28 2005, 01:55 PM)
Think about what a pain it is to get linux on an axim (if it goes at all)  with NO linux support at all everything would have to be back engineered from scratch, possibly putting new roms years after hardware releases. Not a good situation.


I partially agree with you. But I also think there isn't really that much interesting in Linux on Axim. I mean, the hardware is not superior to other devices (iPaq, Zaurus) that do have working Linux. I think if Sharp did abandon Linux and (for example) produced a successor to the 3100 that had all of our wishlist features but not Linux, the motivation would be there to get it done.

But I don't necessarily think that would happen anyway. Unlike the rest of world, Zauruses made good sales in Japan, so I'm not sure why Sharp would mess with that. I'm thinking if they continued to sell Linux Zaurus in Japan, and identical hardware with Windows for the rest of the world, then it's win/win for everyone.
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neuroshock
post Nov 29 2005, 07:06 AM
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Well,

I just talked to a friend in Japan last night. And for this topic anyway it looks like things just aren't going our way on one hand, and VERY MUCH our way on another. He was commenting on the status of Linux in Japan in general and while there has been a tremendous groundswell in a grass-roots movement for Linux-hacking, several of the larger corporations who are heavily vested in Linux are either divesting themselves of their Linux content altogether or trying to reposition themselves into other markets.
Apparently Sharp and other corps had originally gone the Linux route with the hopes of being able to offer cheaper devices without having to pay the Windows licensing fees. As a typical move Microsoft has dropped to the point of just about giving their Os's away to combat this while trying to woo the linux based corps back with comments on how hideous Linux is to provide support for while Windows is the opposite. *excuse me I need to go puke" They are also stressing that the reason that the Sharp line failed in the US, is that Americans hate Linux and only use Windows devices. As proof of this propaganda they offer the fact that they dominate the market in the US by a huge margin. Circular reasoning at it's finest.

Another tremor undermining our hopes is the actions of the "former" Lindows. Lindows had actually gained a LOT of ground in Japan amongst national users and it was the only OS that would allow Japanese menus/titles while switched to an English country code for language display and vice versa. It's also hot swappable between the two without having to reboot. This was ideal for many corporations as many of thier employees must deal with both languages throughout the business day. (Also fueled by the Japanese taking a HUGE amount of pride in being able to speak English- it has become standard doctrine in most corps that if you can't speak at least semi-fluent English that you either suck at your job, or that your employer sucks because their employees do not speak English. Or both.
Anyway back to Lindows- they are abandoning their own product and have greatly cut back their technical support hours and options for it. They are expected within the next month or so to stop all technical support altogether. Instead they have bought heavily into another Linux Distribution and are emphasizing all new r&d to be done on it. (I THINK it's TurboLinux but I can't gaurantee that's right. Somebody verify this or get my lie straight for me please!) Anyway, they have no intentions of tailoring their distribution efforts to anything except the mainstream "pure linux user" for the time being and have stopped their advertising campaign that wooed so many Japanese into trying their product.

As for the cost dropping so radically for the newer clamshells it's POSSIBLE it's just due to normal sales. In fact, sales are fever pitched high in Japan for the models with the 4gb drive embedded. My friend is not Zaurus literate in the least and when I mentioned having a C3100 shipped to me from pricejapan he immediately asked, "Is that the one with the 4gb hard drive?" They seem to have hit the marketing hype for success in Japan directly on target this time. It's hard for us here in the States to understand why they deimphasized the USB-host forexample for so long etc., but it's because we have different expectations and needs. In Japan they apparently put a HUGE (even more than their own marketing presumed) value on bulk storage space. I guess it's a rough equivalent to the not-quite-in-the-know average American consumer who goes looking for a computer and only has a processor speed (in mhz of course) written down on a scrap piece of paper that he got from his nephew Jimbob who is really great with computers who said that was the only thing he needed to look for when buying a new computer. But for whatever the reason the Japanese have gone friggin' NUTS over the new clamshells with the Microdrives. USB based storage and expansion devices are also a big thing over there right now- they're going through the same "OH MY GOSH U CAN HOOK A 20GB HDD VIA THE USB PORT" that we went through here on the forums. (Should we tell them that Sharp gave all that to us over a year ago and neglected to sell the model in their own country till recently?) Sharps made enough money that they're apparently dropping prices in an attempt to go for the markets jugular in Japan and flood their competitors out.

If so then all I have to say is GOOOOO SHARP! This may be the ONLY thing that can turn the tables on a bleak future for Embedded Linux. If they have a huge show-stopping resounding success in their home market by offering a Linux based handheld AND the market shows longer term stability then we're golden. But with our luck all the marketing research will chalk the mega-sales up to the imbedded HDD instead of having anything to do with the OS. Be on the lookout for a slew of Windows based PDA's with imbedded microdrives. If Sharp can retain their market share in the face of all comers, it's just gravy from there. If not our embedded Linux outlook will be severely limited for quite a while to come. There's just too many new linux based devices that are flopping in the marketplace right now (PepperPad for example- I think that's unfair to blame on the Linux ROM- personally I think they built for an imaginary target market that turned out not to exist but thats just my opinion.)

A final word about the Windows os on the lookalike 6000. I had heard the rumor that Sharp was expirementing with Windows on the 6000 during the time period right before they cut sales off here in the states. I'm curious that if they buy Microsofts phoney bill of goods and twisted logic if they will indeed re-offer 6000's based on Windows either here or in Japan. It would be a smart marketing move as they already have everything fab and die'd up to manufacture them, and even a year later they are STILL near the high end of PDA developement here in the states. (That probably translates into "never gonna happen" because Sharp is GAURANTEED to make the wrong decision when it comes to marketing decisions in the US!) But if it does then heck ya, I'd plop down money on a 128mb ram, bluetooth/WiFi equipped SL-6000! Heck yah, and I'd have it Nand flashed to Linux so quick it would make yer head spin! And YES that would certainly fix the battery supply issue for good.

So there's the pro's and con's of the embedded Japanese Linux outlook from the streek-walkers level in Japan. YMMV but that's what I've been told and most of it I've easily verified. It has the worrisome ring of truth at any rate.

BUT for now I don't wanna think about it. I just wanna be happy with my SL-6000 and C3100. Maybe if I ignore the problem it will go away. *sigh*

Somberly Yours,
-NeuroShock
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DrWowe
post Nov 29 2005, 09:47 AM
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Thanks for the insight into the Japanese market. In any case, from our perspective, que sera, sera, since there is nothing we can do to influence corporate decision making.

But I still think, worst case, if a Windows device with very compelling and superior hardware design becomes available, a Linux port won't be far behind. With or without support from the manufacturer.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
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Cresho
post Nov 29 2005, 04:15 PM
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just hope i win the lotttery so i can mass produce our own product linux pda running on x environment. rolleyes.gif
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DrWowe
post Dec 8 2005, 03:54 AM
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QUOTE(guylhem @ Dec 8 2005, 04:59 AM)
It's the very same hardware, only different software. Sharp may have purchased a reference design or resold it to hitachi  (htc does that often) A nand restore should be simply needed to convert it to linux.


I'm a little bit curious if the other way will work. Anyone have a NAND image for the Hitachi?

(Don't worry, I'm not going to the dark side here, I just want to try it and see what happens)
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loc4me
post Dec 8 2005, 07:48 AM
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I would be interested in getting a nand image from the Hitachi. I doubt this will happen b/c as far as i know, in the pocet pc world you cant update the operating system. If you PPC runs MS 2003 you have to buy a new PPC to get MS 2005 and such. Correct me if i am wrong. I have never owned a PPC but that is what i have read.
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DrWowe
post Dec 8 2005, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE(loc4me @ Dec 8 2005, 09:48 AM)
I would be interested in getting a nand image from the Hitachi. I doubt this will happen b/c as far as i know, in the pocet pc world you cant update the operating system. If you PPC runs MS 2003 you have to buy a new PPC to get MS 2005 and such. Correct me if i  am wrong. I have never owned a PPC but that is what i have read.
*


MS 2003 -> MS 2005 is a business decision by the Vendors. They want you to buy a new machine. Technically it's quite possible if the Vendors were willing to port and release it. The whole OS is stored in Flash memory. (that's also why you can reflash them with Linux)
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Howard Roark
post Jan 8 2006, 10:32 AM
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Anyone know how to buy one? I want to try it out.
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Howard Roark
post Jan 8 2006, 10:32 AM
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Anyone know how to buy one? I want to try it out.
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Ferret-Simpson
post Mar 30 2006, 01:47 AM
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You can get situations where the OS can be replaced, O2 XDA One can be upgraded from 2002 to 2003 free as far as I know, (I'll find out for definate in a few weeks) It's just not popular, because they don't sell more that way.
The Hitachi is OEMed from Sharp, it IS a HC6000 as far as I know. The only question is, what differences are there between the HC-6000N and SL-6000W?

Ferret.
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the_oak
post Mar 30 2006, 05:09 AM
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I just re-read the (Mozilla translated) Sharp announcement in the first post here. Am I blind, or is there no mention at all of wifi or bluetooth on the Windows 6000? Wouldn't it be listed in the features if it was there?
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