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> Professional Modding
Tom61
post Dec 6 2005, 07:52 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ Dec 6 2005, 09:18 PM)
so..Tom61... when do you expect to be able to make a "3100w"
*


I plan to order a 3100 not long after my student loans come in, which should be at the start of next semester.
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adf
post Dec 6 2005, 10:16 PM
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I'm thinking of orderin soon... the prices are getting really good. hope you get the system down quickly. I'll keep my 6k, but I bet Ill hate to ship the clamshell out for the upgrade.
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Da_Blitz
post Dec 7 2005, 02:01 AM
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Starting to sound like it would just be cheaper to design our own handheld from scratch wink.gif
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neuroshock
post Dec 7 2005, 03:59 AM
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Yes indeed,

You can count me in on this one too. Your warranty suggestion seems reasonable, price is reasonable, (although after Christmas I'm gonna be cashless for quiiiiite a while!), and the idea as a whole is golden imho. I've got few minor stipulations before I'd make the leap however:

1. As others have expressed, I'm fine with the USB modifications so long as I could use the usb port for external usb Host duties and so long as I'm not limited on the number of external devices I can use on the usb Host at one time. For example I will want to be able to plug a usb self powered hub into the the 3100 using the usb Host Cable, and then plug an external usb keyboard, mouse, and my usb external 2.5" hdd into the usb self powered hub and still have everything work.

2. The second stipulation is that It would need to be accompanied by fully functional working drivers, (installed and available), for the original Sharp ROM, Cacko, AND pdaXrom. My reason for this is I vowed never again to buy a PDA or component that I did not know for SURE would work with whatever the most mainstream ROM choices that are available at the time. One of the reasons I'm a Zaurus owner to begin with is that I can 'tinker' and switch OS's when the urge hits me or as one ROM comes out with a mongo-cool function heretofore unavailable. Being one of the first SL-6000L owners it seemed an unbearable eternity before we could begin to enjoy the benefits of alternate ROM's that everyone else was ooOoooh-ing and aaAaaaah-ing over! Likewise until recently I was the CHAMPION of the "bleeding edge" when it came time to purchase that coooool new (insert any expensive expansion device here) that cost a bazillion dollars only to find out that I would have to wait ANOTHER unbearable eternity for drivers to become available for it. I'm just wore out with risky stuff.

3. Which brings us to stipulation number three. I need to see you successfully alter your first unit, and see at least one person, (preferrably one of the long-time members that are well respected), take the plunge with successful results before I'll get my feet wet on this one. I'm trigger-shy at this point.

If we can get past these things I'd gladly send my $200.00usd along with my brand new C3100 to be endowed with these great gifts of internal devices that communicate with the external world! So get on with it kind sir, and let's get this thing out of theory and into reality! My money awaits you! (or anyone else that can deliver these kind of results!)

I agree with Adf's comment that slaughtering a perfectly good 6000 to scavenge the screen for the "6000 screen in a 3100 clamshell" project would be a horrible thing to do. Rather than killing the idea for the project, I think we should simply try to find vendors for the screen and just buy the screen itself. I've seen several posts around here that point to other devices that use the same screen as the 6000. It should REALLY be looked into.

BECAUSE---> A SL-C3100 with integrated WiFi, Bluetooth, 6gb hdd, and that 4" BEAUUUUUTIFUL screen used in the 6000's all adds up to the PERFECT LINUX PDA device! And just to head off that "it will be so expensive to do all that, that nobody will be willing to pay that much to get it modded..." conversation we always end up having at this point- I DEFINITELY WOULD pay a VERY large amount for the screen upgrade! It would be a notebook/tablet class device in palmtop size and therefore I would be more than willing to pay laptop/notebook prices! I'd sell all my other Zaurii in a heartbeat as well as a few of my children if necessary to pay for it! (j/k about the children part) I think that such a machine as this would be worthy of a pricetag nearing or around $1000-1200usd. Possibly more.

Personally I use/own both a SL-6000L and a C3100 just to have a "best of both worlds" compromise. It would probably be CHEAPER for me to fork out over $1000usd than it would have been for me to have to pay for TWO Zuarii as I currently have been forced to do. For the "perfect Zaurus" those prices aren't rediculous at all as my Zaurus is my primary computer. (I realize this isn't overly common). It's very rare in my particular situation that I use my Desktop computer for anything other than playing World of Warcraft. For everything else I use my Zaurii. Because of my health and being hospital confined or bedbound for large periods of time my Zaurus becomes the ONLY computer I can get to, (Avoid crippling arthritic diseases at all cost. You'll be glad you did.)

I'll be monitoring your progress closely, this idea shows great promise! And PLEASE at least consider adding the "6000 screen" upgrade to your list and research how much parts might cost etc. It may not be feasible or it truly may be cost prohibitive but we will never know till we try. If it would make a difference I would be willing if I'm financially able to do so to front a bit of money to fund the "research and development" phase of the screen project, I'm pretty sure a few others would as well. So find out and then run a price by us for these mods. Or as the old saying goes "Try me....I just might!".

Just let me say up front---- You are NOT allowed to abandon this idea of modding the C3100 platform! I completely FORBID it! You've reignited that spark of hope that I've had for so long that the Perfect Zaurus WOULD be available IN MY LIFETIME! Therefore you may NOT casually crush my hopes and dreams simply because it is "difficult". I fear that my fragile emotional state would never recover from such abusive and callous treatment!

There- I've covered both the stick AND the carrot method! tongue.gif Offer cash rewards on one hand and try to put a guilt trip on 'em the size of Texas on the other! I learned this advanced technique from my children and they assure me - it works every time. wink.gif

-NeuroShock
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DrWowe
post Dec 7 2005, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE(neuroshock @ Dec 7 2005, 05:59 AM)
2. The second stipulation is that It would need to be accompanied by fully functional working drivers, (installed and available), for the original Sharp ROM, Cacko, AND pdaXrom.


You might rethink that. My only requirement would be that "cat /proc/usb/devices" shows they are present and recognized. It's an inefficient distribution of labor to require that a talanted hardware modder also spend the time and effort to support every imaginable software combination. There's plenty of other people with the abilities to get the software side working, and it's going to require community effort to make this project fully functional.

QUOTE(neuroshock @ Dec 7 2005, 05:59 AM)
I fear that my fragile emotional state would never recover from such abusive and callous treatment!


Ummmm.... yeah. This is business it isn't "God's given right to have a 3100W". I don't want potential modders to be scared off by the thought of putting their customers into therapy... blink.gif
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adf
post Dec 7 2005, 11:57 AM
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I dunno... we could agree on parts and collaborate on on making modules and installation packages. I agree that Tom61 should stick to the hardware mods if that is what suits him... but it would be pointless for a lot of us (and scare some potential fellow travelers) if he just stuck some hardware in the Z and said "good luck"

If we are talking about a standard usb bt/wifi dongle that already has linux drivers, we could probably arrange to write and post the drivers pretty easily. We could also send the original, external version of the device with a few dollars to our favorite dev teams and let them handle the integration, if they agree to it.
There are a few options here. The point is, It has to work well and easily when we are done. That is to say, if I get one done ,and I love it and talk about it, it would be best if someone else could, with confidence, order one for themselves, and expect to have it working on their rom of choice when it arrives home.

That only amounts to a handful of kernel modules (or kernels with the drivers built-in, my preference)
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Tom61
post Dec 7 2005, 01:01 PM
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ADF pretty much summed up my thoughts on the driver stipulation. I'll try to find a module that is already well supported by the roms currently out, but I can't control what the software people do, or the wierd interactions software sometimes has.

Stipulation 1 is no trouble, USB can handle up to 127 devices so an extra 2 shouldn't hurt your expansion possibilities. I will of course do testing to make sure. Stip. 3 was expected.

Da_Blitz: One thing at a time wink.gif
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adf
post Dec 7 2005, 01:35 PM
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2 things...
the screen transplant would be cool

a passthrough (mina Male / A female)bt/wifi dongle using the same modules would probably see some demand as well
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waalkman
post Dec 7 2005, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE(TRIsoft @ Dec 5 2005, 03:11 AM)
the problem is the pricetag.
A modification in any means will need a new test for
CE/FCC conformity. All in all we're talking about roughly
>$2000 for a medium modification here.
This is OK for every new Zaurus model with a large
quantitiy to be sold, but nobody would pay it for a series
of 10 units.

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
*


I'm sure that this will come as quite a shock to Xbox modders everywhere - I'd say that it would be a safe bet that *none* of the modchips have been tested for compliance.

And while the argument could be made that these devices are to be installed by the users, there are several sites that will install them for you.
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neuroshock
post Dec 8 2005, 06:11 PM
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[quote=DrWowe,Dec 7 2005, 05:17 PM]
[quote=neuroshock,Dec 7 2005, 05:59 AM]2. The second stipulation is that It would need to be accompanied by fully functional working drivers, (installed and available), for the original Sharp ROM, Cacko, AND pdaXrom.
[/quote]

You might rethink that. My only requirement would be that "cat /proc/usb/devices" shows they are present and recognized. It's an inefficient distribution of labor to require that a talanted hardware modder also spend the time and effort to support every imaginable software combination. There's plenty of other people with the abilities to get the software side working, and it's going to require community effort to make this project fully functional.
[/quote]
*

[/quote]


Doc,

I see your point, but you think you may have missed mine. I didn't claim to be speaking for the community. I'm just speaking for myself, and I meant every word of it. It's very important to me and if I can't get that level of functionality out of the box then I'm not interested in spending money on it.

Also I agree and didn't expect him to require coverage for "every imaginable software combination", I specifically narrowed it to the default Sharp ROM, Cacko, and pdaXrom. These are not "fly by night" unknown nor obscure ROM's there's no reason this should cripple his project in the long term.

I didn't intend for it to be inferred that Tom himself had to do all the writing/tailoring of the drivers but I can easily see how what I wrote could be read that way. It was sloppy writing on my part, I should have proofread it better. What I meant to get across was that before I would be willing to hire him to do this then SOMEONE had to come up with working drivers for those ROM's AND that he would have to include the drivers and instructions on how to install them with the modded unit when he shipped it back to me. I don't care WHERE they originated from so long as they WORK and are PROVIDED. My guess is that every tech-head we have will be all over this the moment the first unit rolls out and you probably couldn't STOP those drivers from being available if you tried!

So, if you combine these clarifications you come up with something like this:

Others may, (and surely will), jump in line before me to be his customer. I will wait however until drivers have been written, (I don't care by whom - just that they work), tested, and become available for those three ROM's. Those drivers will have to provide 100% functionality and Tom will need to distribute them in electronic format along with detailed installation instructions. Since I will have flashed my unit back to the stock rom (english trans.) when I send it to him I expect that when I receive it back from him for the hardware modded additions to work right out of the box. If this never becomes a reality then I am doomed to never be an owner of one of these lovely modded "dream machines". =(

Just so that the non-SL-6000 crowd will understand. I was one of the first SL-6000 owners. It was a wonderful, glorious new machine and it DID have great capabilities right out of the box. But I quickly found that us 6k owners were stuck in a time capsule. As the clamshells came out, model after model, ROM's started falling from the sky that not only offered better eye candy but BETTER PERFORMANCE and therefore BETTER FUNCTIONALITY in a few key areas. Full screen video was virtually impossible to me (very sensitive to refresh rates, anythin under 22-24fps makes me physically sick) as was running SNES/Gameboy/MAME class emulators, first person shooters, and even some of the full screen sdl games that I bought retail, (and that scooted in comparison on my SL-5500.) Yes, you could get close to decent performance if you spent a few hundred hours and invested a PHD or so to the task- but until the last few months we never had ONE SINGLE VIABLE OPTION that provided full functionality for our SL-6000's. And STILL TO THIS DAY no rom has provided framebuffer/video acceleration- we currently have hundreds of dollars in open reward money to anyone that would provide us with this! But nothing to show for it to date. If it hadn't been for Guylhem's pioneering efforts at providing a performance kernel and later a ROM to go with it we may never have had any performance enhancements at all- and all other model owners have come to EXPECT those as a minimum requirement. Around the same time Cacko and pdaXrom entered the 6000 fray and also shook off enuf of the use prohibitive problems to be viable for the average numbskull like myself to use.

This doesn't even amble into the misc. hardware (CF, sdcards, USB devices, Bluetooth devices etc) that I've bought in the last two years alone that I was never able to get functioning with even the Sharp ROM of any Zaurus I have owned.

Anyhow, as you can see I've just gotten to the end of my rope with "bleeding edge devices" when it comes to my Zaurus. My pocketbook and patience have both learned their lesson and I'll step back a few and let the folks who are actually talented in the software area take point for a while. So I WILL throw my money into the ring for this C3100 Modding- but until it's 100% ready- neither am I.

Tom doesn't have to slave away at both the hardware and software sides of this thing- but if he doesn't/can't then the not-so-skilled mainstream Zaurus user will never pay for it. If we had the skillz ourselves we wouldn't pay someone to do what we could do for ourselves. It's gotta work, there's gotta be viable ROM options, and its gotta be 100% functional out of the box. Anything less than 100% functional = partially broken, and while I'll use partially broken for free - I'm sure not gonna pay for it. The whole point is to pay someone else good money to make it work for me WITHOUT me having to do it myself.

Just my two cents worth folks, however my feelings probably are pretty mainstream. If Tom wants to sell enough of these mods to make regular money on the side he's going to have to appeal to more users than just the bleeding-edge elite.

Tom, I SINCERELY hope you can pull some/most/all of these mods off. I'm putting my money behind that hope. Make it happen. You can do this, if for no other reason than that.....I believe.

-NeuroShock
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bgsfh
post Dec 13 2005, 02:44 PM
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In communications with the supplier for the flash memory upgrade chips, they brought up LCD screens. If someone could give me the manufacturer and part numbers for the screen of the 6K or the appropriate specifications, I could enquire about the purchase of screens as well.

As an aside, in addition trying to find dead 6Ks on Ebay as screen donors, someone could look for other devices that may use the same component. I know that the Toshiba e800 used the same dimension screen protectors. Perhaps they used the same screen.
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guylhem
post Dec 16 2005, 11:04 AM
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Hello

Glad to have some news! Regarding the part number for the 6k screen, I did post it here. Can't find it atm- maybe with search you can find it ?

Guylhem
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adf
post Dec 16 2005, 11:49 AM
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QUOTE(guylhem @ Dec 16 2005, 07:04 PM)
Hello

Glad to have some news! Regarding the part number for the 6k screen, I did post it here. Can't find it atm- maybe with search you can find it ?

Guylhem
*

I saw it recently. it is under replacement screen sometjhing or other, I think
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