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> Lack Of Intrest In Forums Lately
koen
post Nov 15 2006, 05:48 AM
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QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Nov 15 2006, 01:29 PM)
moreover on openbsd you can compile and install your own packages directly on the zaurus with xscale optimization
*


With OE and even ptxdist you can compile your own packages on your much faster workstation with xscale optimizations. I for one am not waiting 20 to 50 times longer for a compile just for 'OMG z4uru5 gcc!!!!' geek cred. Try compiling giac with -O2 on your Z.
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arniel
post Nov 15 2006, 05:53 AM
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I too have an SL5500 and have pretty much given up using it.
Although I lurk here every day, I haven't switched the Z on for months. The reason? It just doesn't work properly. I used OZ3.2 for ages as a pdf reader and mp3 player, ignored 3.3.6 then jumped to 3.5 and that's when things went downhill rapidly.
I know this is just a hobby for the developers, but the sad fact is that if it stays as a hodge-podge of half/untested code and labrynthine documentation those of us who want to USE our Zs will give up and walk away.
It's the most basic problems that are the most annoying - in my case the suspend/resume and mplayer not being able to play mp2 files properly. The suspend/resume bug was fixed in an older release but is now back, and the mplayer bug has been around for a few months but no-one bothered to reply when I raised it on the fora a while back.
That and the general instability of the software means that I spent most of my time rebooting the unit as I couldn't just switch it on and continue where I left off, which I could do with 3.2 (for months on end).
This isn't progress, it's just the M$ style of developement where coders are only interested in the newest shiniest code and hardware leaving the rest of us in the dust.
Oh, and the argument about "well if you don't like it, fix it yourself!" displays exactly the attitude problem here - not all of us are coders (well, I am but my area of expertise is 12 years of application programming and 7 years SQL developement), or have the time to learn the dev. environment.
As a consequence, I now have a multimedia player (20Gb) and use my trusty printer for documents, and the Z has been an expensive paperweight for some time.
Maybe things will improve, but I doubt it as there is no pride in producing a quality product here, and although there are a few excellent, helpful coders here, the general attitude seems to be that each coder is doing it for his own self-gratification or glory from fellow geeks.

I'm sorry for this lengthy rant, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. All I can hope for is that it contributes to a wake up call that will refocus the developers to get their house in order before they are deserted by the rest of the non-developer community here.

Arnie
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bluedevils
post Nov 15 2006, 06:17 AM
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Arnie,

What is wrong with one of the sharp rom deviants? As mentioned before there is a cacko rom for the 5500 or the ol' tkcrom. It should be relatively stable and have added functionality. I can't comment on mp2, but I find the latest mplayers for the sharp rom to be very functional.
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Cyberdoc1971
post Nov 15 2006, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE(bluedevils @ Nov 15 2006, 09:17 AM)
Arnie,

What is wrong with one of the sharp rom deviants?  As mentioned before there is a cacko rom for the 5500 or the ol' tkcrom.  It should be relatively stable and have added functionality.  I can't comment on mp2, but I find the latest mplayers for the sharp rom to be very functional.
*

I have to agree with you on that one, even though I have the C3100 not the 5500, Cacko is very stable, and I believe it supports the MP2 files. Trying not to get off topic, my major gripe lately is that there is little or new news on anything Linux or Zaurus.
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jpmatrix
post Nov 15 2006, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE(Cyberdoc1971 @ Nov 15 2006, 05:28 PM)
QUOTE(bluedevils @ Nov 15 2006, 09:17 AM)
Arnie,

What is wrong with one of the sharp rom deviants?  As mentioned before there is a cacko rom for the 5500 or the ol' tkcrom.  It should be relatively stable and have added functionality.  I can't comment on mp2, but I find the latest mplayers for the sharp rom to be very functional.
*

I have to agree with you on that one, even though I have the C3100 not the 5500, Cacko is very stable, and I believe it supports the MP2 files. Trying not to get off topic, my major gripe lately is that there is little or new news on anything Linux or Zaurus.
*



i think what he means is that if you have a working Cacko (or openBSD!) on the zaurus, you only have to compile and you have whatever new piece of software you want wink.gif

but i repeat, i was speaking about the C3000 which cannot run Cacko or OE like the C3100 or C3200 can (at least when i look in the forums!) ... so it is great to see that Openbsd do actually support the C3000 (although with some difficulties wink.gif
i've bought my C3000 quite when it was just out ; so it was soooo expensive wink.gif i would not like to throw it away wink.gif
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koen
post Nov 15 2006, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Nov 15 2006, 05:04 PM)
but i repeat,  i was speaking about the C3000 which cannot run Cacko or OE like the C3100 or C3200 can (at least when i look in the forums!) .
*


I think you mean OZ and, yes that runs perfectly on a c3000, grab the spitz image from http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.op...3.5.4.1/images/

OE (and hence OZ) does not distinguish between the c3000, c3100 and c3200 since they are the same machine kernelwise and don't have any different features userspace should care about.

With altboot you could even dualboot it into *bsd if you want
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harvell
post Nov 15 2006, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE(arniel @ Nov 15 2006, 05:53 AM)
I too have an SL5500 and have pretty much given up using it.

*


You can always use it to run a server service at home. It has a small footprint and can run a variety of services. SSH, FTP, etc....
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lardman
post Nov 15 2006, 09:50 AM
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I have to wade in here I'm afraid...

QUOTE
I know this is just a hobby for the developers, but the sad fact is that if it stays as a hodge-podge of half/untested code and labrynthine documentation those of us who want to USE our Zs will give up and walk away.


That's understandable.

QUOTE
It's the most basic problems that are the most annoying - in my case the suspend/resume and mplayer not being able to play mp2 files properly. The suspend/resume bug was fixed in an older release but is now back, and the mplayer bug has been around for a few months but no-one bothered to reply when I raised it on the fora a while back.


Asking on the forum is unlikely to get you much developer exposure. Use the bugtracker or ask on the mailing list. I don't know why the suspend bug has come back, but perhaps someone could enlighten me. Likewise the mp2 problem. I think part of the frustration is not getting an answer, which is related to where you're asking.

QUOTE
This isn't progress, it's just the M$ style of developement where coders are only interested in the newest shiniest code and hardware leaving the rest of us in the dust.


As you said above, this is a hobby, therefore it's to be expected that many developers will be interested in different things, and often those are new things. With that said, there are those who want to produce a polished product, but it depends on what bits they use, if they don't use it they won't be all that motivated.

QUOTE
Oh, and the argument about "well if you don't like it, fix it yourself!" displays exactly the attitude problem here - not all of us are coders (well, I am but my area of expertise is 12 years of application programming and 7 years SQL developement), or have the time to learn the dev. environment.


Adding bugs with plenty of information is a good way to start if you don't want to do the coding yourself.

QUOTE
Maybe things will improve, but I doubt it as there is no pride in producing a quality product here, and although there are a few excellent, helpful coders here, the general attitude seems to be that each coder is doing it for his own self-gratification or glory from fellow geeks.


As you said above, this is a hobby, there is no other reason to do it than those you mentioned, though I'd replace geeks with users. If a developer knows that enough people want/need something doing, then they may be encouraged to do it.

QUOTE
I'm sorry for this lengthy rant, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. All I can hope for is that it contributes to a wake up call that will refocus the developers to get their house in order before they are deserted by the rest of the non-developer community here.


Although this would be a bad thing, it's not necessarily the driving factor for a developer, certainly not for one who's not being paid. As you said above, interest value/challenge of a problem, and kudos are the two factors (IMO), one needs to appeal to one or both of these.


Si
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Cyberdoc1971
post Nov 15 2006, 08:28 PM
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I think we have gotten a bit off topic here. I am all for helping out others, but I think someone needs to start a new thread to help address the others in some of the software issues.
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speculatrix
post Nov 16 2006, 02:30 AM
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QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Nov 15 2006, 06:04 PM)
but i repeat,  i was speaking about the C3000 which cannot run Cacko or OE like the C3100 or C3200 can (at least when i look in the forums!) ... so it is great to see that Openbsd do actually support the C3000 (although with some difficulties wink.gif
i've bought my C3000 quite when it was just out ; so it was soooo expensive wink.gif i would not like to throw it away wink.gif
*


in theory a c3000 can have its flash upgraded to the full 128Mb (or even bigger, but then you'd have to patch the boot loader too). it requires a bit of surface mount soldering, if you didn't mind destroying the old flash device you could do it relatively safely. the key part is ensuring you have a known good working new 128MB flash device to implant.

but this is already covered in the hardware mods section.
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chal
post Nov 16 2006, 02:38 AM
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Just wanted to add that I am very thankful for all the help I have gotten from this forum, from both devs and even other newbs when I first started and although not as much new is happening on the sl5500, I find it very useful and usable. In fact, with the more stable roms, Cacko & tKc IMO, everything that I use (albeit, I don't use my Zs for internet, mostly PDA, ebooks and reference progs and ocasionally music on tKc player) works so well that I get bored and (when time permits) try OE again from time to time.

I think it's great that we have a choice between the stable and the cutting edge and since I have an extra, I can always try the cutting edge stuff without sacrificing my everyday use. My point in my first post, was toward the topic and specifically why I don't post as much as I used to. I have just as much interest in the forum as ever, I just don't have as much reason to post. I check almost everyday, just to see if there is anything of interest, but lately it's been more from a passive lurking and learning perspective.
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speculatrix
post Nov 16 2006, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE(lardman @ Nov 15 2006, 06:50 PM)
I have to wade in here I'm afraid...
Asking on the forum is unlikely to get you much developer exposure. Use the bugtracker or ask on the mailing list. I don't know why the suspend bug has come back, but perhaps someone could enlighten me. Likewise the mp2 problem. I think part of the frustration is not getting an answer, which is related to where you're asking.
*


Can I propose you get the OZ forums here on oesf.org frozen/locked.. there's no point in them being here, if what you say is right. And the OZ website news section is closed to comments, and the wiki is very very slow, and quite disorganised, so is a pain to use. So, might as well become a mailing-list only group and simply get people to search the list archives for information?
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koen
post Nov 16 2006, 02:47 AM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Nov 16 2006, 10:42 AM)
simply get people to search the list archives for information?
*


Heh, most people here can't even find the 'search' button in these fora nor locate http://google.com, and you expect them to search mailinglists?
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arniel
post Nov 16 2006, 02:48 AM
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Si, you are most definintely one of the devs who makes me stick around here...

QUOTE
Asking on the forum is unlikely to get you much developer exposure. Use the bugtracker or ask on the mailing list. I don't know why the suspend bug has come back, but perhaps someone could enlighten me. Likewise the mp2 problem. I think part of the frustration is not getting an answer, which is related to where you're asking.


Thank you, I wasn't aware of the situation.

QUOTE
Adding bugs with plenty of information is a good way to start if you don't want to do the coding yourself.


Indeed, my experience of that got me no response (here), well, the thread carried on with my issue ignored. Do I sound bitter? ;-)

I will have a look at cacko now, I'm sure there was a reason why I chose OZ in the first instance, but I can't remember...

Thanks once again!
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arniel
post Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Nov 16 2006, 10:47 AM)
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Nov 16 2006, 10:42 AM)
simply get people to search the list archives for information?
*


Heh, most people here can't even find the 'search' button in these fora nor locate http://google.com, and you expect them to search mailinglists?
*



That's a pretty arrogant, smug comment don't you think?
Most of us have lives outside of the Zaurus and as such have better things to do than spend ages sifting through the disorganised mess that is the Zaurus documentation world. Have you actually tried using google to solve a Z-related problem? It's a nightmare, and unless one knows exactly what the distribution one is using is based on, it's sometimes impossible to find related information.
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