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> C-1000... Blinking Battery Light, a little problem with my unit
ArKay
post Mar 29 2007, 12:39 PM
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I just got a used C1000 with the EA BL-11 battery and the sharp EA-72 charger.

Plugging in the ac adapter causes the battery light to go on but then after about 10 minutes it sits and blinks.

The unit will not turn on with the battery in or with the battery in and the AC adapter plugged in.

If I take the battery out and plug it in the battery light flashes and the unit doesn't do anything.

Any ideas what might be wrong ?


Sorry for the ignorance - I couldn't find anything about this issue doing a search on the forum archives.
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Capn_Fish
post Mar 29 2007, 01:06 PM
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I would guess that your battery is dead, but somebody more experienced in this area would know much better than me.

Two things that may help:

1. If your battery isn't an original, check to make sure its contacts can actually touch the Z's. There is a thread dealing with this somewhere (Accessories?)...

2. If your battery is just dead, you could try putting it in a plastic bag in a freezer for ~24 hours, allowing it to return to room temperature (still in the bag to avoid condensation), then charge. This is supposed to revive dead batteries (I believe it gave mine an extra bit of juice, but I haven't done any tests, so it may be power of suggestion)

Anyway, good luck!
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speculatrix
post Mar 30 2007, 02:11 PM
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I would definitely not put a LiIon battery in a freezer! Most storage recommendations suggest for longevity to keep them in cool place approx half charged. LiIon batteries age over time, but mainly through recharging cycles - keeping them topped up can help.

I once left my cell phone in luggage for transatlantic flight and the hold must have been unheated - there was a lot of condensation in luggage when I landed and needed to get something out - and the battery which had previously been good was useless. As a result if I *have* to put cameras/camcorders etc into check-in baggage (which I avoid if at all possible) I remove batteries and carry them by hand!
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Capn_Fish
post Mar 30 2007, 02:54 PM
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You put it in a plastic bag to avoid condensation on the battery, so you don't have that issue.
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ArKay
post Mar 30 2007, 06:53 PM
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Well - the freeze the battery trick didn't do anything.

It was worth a try since it wasn't working anyway. Just a bummer since the person who sold it to me claimed it was 'in good working order' but didn't mention the battery was bad...

Anyone else have any ideas what the blinking battery light means ?
blink.gif

I'm open to reasonable suggestions before I have to shell out a bunch of money to try another battery... even more important in case the charging circuitry is dead and all I'll be doing is wasting time, effort and money to destroy another battery...
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Drake01
post Mar 30 2007, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 30 2007, 05:11 PM)
I once left my cell phone in luggage for transatlantic flight and the hold must have been unheated - there was a lot of condensation in luggage when I landed and needed to get something out - and the battery which had previously been good was useless. As a result if I *have* to put cameras/camcorders etc into check-in baggage (which I avoid if at all possible) I remove batteries and carry them by hand!
*

I don't know for certain about freezing LiIon cells, but it might also have been the depressurization that killed the battery. I'm pretty sure that LiIon cells (probably most rechargeables, actually) have "vents" that will burst if pressure builds too high. I believe this is to prevent the entire cell from exploding. The cargo hold, which I'm pretty sure is not pressurized, might have caused the "vents" to blow. Just a guess.

I've also heard that the worst thing to do to a LiIon cell is to completely discharge it. Supposedly, you'll get much longer life if you keep it topped off. LiIons do not have the "memory effect" of NiCads, so recharging them when they're only halfway (or less) discharged shouldn't cause any problems.
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speculatrix
post Mar 31 2007, 12:43 AM
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I did wait for the phone and battery to reach room temp and all condensation to clear before attempting to use it; I am speculating whether the electrolyte in the battery could be damaged by freezing, somehow crystallizing it? Hmm, nothing when I google, but wikipedia says the LiIon electrolyte doens't freeze until -40, which is pretty damn cold. Anyway, I will continue to take that precaution.
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pelrun
post Mar 31 2007, 05:50 AM
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QUOTE(Drake01 @ Mar 31 2007, 04:23 AM)
LiIons do not have the "memory effect" of NiCads, so recharging them when they're only halfway (or less) discharged shouldn't cause any problems.
*


Nicads don't have the "memory effect of Nicads" either. You don't see the problem with NiMH and LiIon only because the chargers are smarter, and actually turn off when the cell is full! (well, ok, LiIon would explode without it... biggrin.gif )

Partial charges of Nicads are perfectly ok and always have been. What *isn't* ok is overcharging the cells, which is dead simple with the dumb always-on chargers always used with them, and even simpler when you put a half-charged battery in but leave it in just as long as you would have done for an empty battery (half the time is spent overcharging the battery! yay!)

Overcharging damages the cells and makes the voltage drop, which makes devices stop working earlier (even though there is still charge in the cell) which in turn caused people with no knowledge of battery chemistry to invent the "memory effect" myth.
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ArKay
post Mar 31 2007, 09:24 PM
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OK -
I know this may see somewhat self-centered and leaking, frozen, memory hampered lithium ion batteries are an interesting topic but...

can anyone tell me wht the steady on for 10 minutes followed by blinking battery light _means_ ?

Did I get a bad battery ? A bad unit ? what ?

Is ttere a way to fix it ?

sorry if I sound cranky - but having dropped the $325 for the unit I want to figure out what's up with the 'in perfect working order' Z I just got.

Thanks for any help
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speculatrix
post Apr 1 2007, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE(ArKay @ Apr 1 2007, 06:24 AM)
somewhat self-centered ... but...

can anyone tell me wht the steady on for 10 minutes followed by blinking battery light _means_ ?

Did I get a bad battery ?  A bad unit ? what ?

Is ttere a way to fix it ?
*


oops, sorry to get off track.

do you have access to someone who's got an external charger, so you can try charging up the battery outside the Z?

do you have a multimeter and able to probe the battery contacts to see what the voltage is on and off charge? one can be bought for less than US$10 in RadioShack etc?
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ArKay
post Apr 1 2007, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2007, 03:22 AM)
oops, sorry to get off track.

do you have access to someone who's got an external charger, so you can try charging up the battery outside the Z?

do you have a multimeter and able to probe the battery contacts to see what the voltage is on and off charge? one can be bought for less than US$10 in RadioShack etc?
*


No problem. cool.gif

I have a multimeter but no external charger.

The battery reads 4.2v and only 442Mah out of the Zaurus.

IS the battery just weak enough that it can't power the Z and the blinking light is saying 'bad battery ?'
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speculatrix
post Apr 1 2007, 12:25 PM
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does the voltage on the battery change when the charger is plugged in?
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ArKay
post Apr 1 2007, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2007, 03:25 PM)
does the voltage on the battery change when the charger is plugged in?
*


Since I don't have an external charger I can't read the voltage of the battery when it's in the C1000. sad.gif

Hence my hope that the behavior (charges OK for about 10 minutes but will not come on even if plugged into AC - battery light starts blinking about 10 minutes into charge and doesn't stop... unit does not turn on then either) would be indicative of a problem and hence an answer to fix it.

If that is the actions of a unit with a bad AC adapter, a bad charger circuit or a bad battery that would be great to know.

...otherwise... I've got a few questions out to see if anyone I know has an external charger to try out.
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speculatrix
post Apr 2 2007, 04:03 AM
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I meant you need to probe the battery contacts whilst battery is in the Z, with and without charger, so that you can see if the Z is trying to charge the battery at all.

I am wondering if your charging fuse has blown - this seems to be most common problem; if so there are two solutions - 1/ get external charger 2/ open up the Z and replace the surface mount (tiny!) fuse.
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speculatrix
post Apr 2 2007, 04:04 AM
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if you disconnect all power, take power out, wait 10s, insert battery, flick the switch back, hold D+M and turn on, do you get the D+M menu?
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