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> Is The Z, Archos Pma, Etc Dead?
Cyberdoc1971
post Aug 14 2007, 07:36 PM
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I know some of this has been touched on in pother previous forums, but has the age of the Linux-powered pda (Zaurus/Archos PMA/Etc.) come to an end? This was in discussion especially when Sharp made the decision to discontinue the Zaurus line. I have also seen the decline in other PDA lines (Palm and Windows Mobile), with very little news of any new PDAs coming out(personally, the Follio is a sub-notebook, not a PDA).

I have seen other users Z's and other units starting to have problems, and lack of parts does not help. Like you I got into the mobile Linux when it started up, I was lucky recently to get my hands on an Archos PMA430, bit I have concerns that the PDA is about dead to make way for the converged device, which I am not too fond of. So people, what are your thoughts on this?
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 15 2007, 12:39 AM
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i think due to the nature of the devices it wont die quickly, by not running proprietary OSs we gain the ability to have the device updated until the hardware physically expires

i like converged devices but i prefer something slightly different to most people, my idea of the perfect phone is a small black box with bluetooth and 5 buttons on the top, everything is handled by the buttons and audio for feedback

back on topic however the entry to using a PDA is higher than most people give it credit for, out of the box it needs extra software IMHO to be useful and most people i find are not up to that task, the umpcs change that because its a familiar x86 architecture running windows and they can use the same apps on the PC, i guess that would explain the general down turn

i think there are several different other reasons as well, more enphisis on phones (i count pda phones as pdas) and the high cost of PDAs, i wouldn't say its a cheap hobby.

i think the follio is more limited than that, i would say its a screen extender for your mobile
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nilch
post Aug 15 2007, 07:31 AM
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While I love the Zaurus as a PDA, but its slow-dying future seems to put me off and I am looking into getting a phone with basic PIM functions - and while a year back I( would have cringed at the though - even I am looking at a MS Windows Mobile 6 platform - since seems the only platform which has a future of continuing support and development for it.

A Linux phone has been so much talked about - but on the converged devices market, I still don't see Linux - and open like the Zaurus - anywhere on the horizon - hence the defection.

Its sad to see thw age of PDA's dwindling - cause even though I know my phone can do Opera, it still cant replace the PDA functions totally and as effectively as the Zaurus does.

Only if the Zaurus matured and iterated over different models with more functions to cater to the converged device market - but again, only if pigs flew !
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Cyberdoc1971
post Aug 15 2007, 03:26 PM
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I agree that Only if the Zaurus and others (Archos/Kyocera/Simens/etc)matured and iterated over different models with more functions to cater to the converged device market. Still not crazy about WM6, or converged devices which unfortunately has become a monopoloy. I know there are a few DIY OS tinkers out there, which have put Linux on the Simpad and the older Compaq iPaq, I wonder if they are running into some problems with lack of PDAs, accessories, parts, etc?
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iwantprogress
post Aug 15 2007, 03:26 PM
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my tastes seem to be very uncommon in the marketplace, since all devices except the zaurus fail them. (and i haven't yet got my z.)

did some white paper inspire the marketers and designers to avoid some of the z's characteristics?

especially the thumbpad and size... the only significant devices i know that have the right idea are zaurus and hplx (honi soit qui mal y pense).

perhaps it's all due to a few gurus?
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Meanie
post Aug 15 2007, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE(iwantprogress @ Aug 16 2007, 09:26 AM)
my tastes seem to be very uncommon in the marketplace, since all devices except the zaurus fail them.  (and i haven't yet got my z.)

did some white paper inspire the marketers and designers to avoid some of the z's characteristics?

especially the thumbpad and size... the only significant devices i know that have the right idea are zaurus and hplx (honi soit qui mal y pense).

perhaps it's all due to a few gurus?
*


its just marketing at its best. the z and the hplx are models for a niche market of smart people. marketeers prefer to market products to the general dumb masses that buys hype and have less demands on hitech features but are pleased with something that looks good and plays music/video, pim and the occasional web surfing, and they dont mind their device being obsolete in the near future since they expect to replace it anyway...
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iwantprogress
post Aug 16 2007, 02:27 AM
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i think i'd be ok with a (properly thumbable) pda for the dumb masses that could be made to run linux, or an updated (still thumbable) z with "ubuntu for the dumb masses".

what features would i miss in those cases? or which features would they have that the dumb masses would not like?
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Meanie
post Aug 16 2007, 02:52 AM
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QUOTE(iwantprogress @ Aug 16 2007, 08:27 PM)
i think i'd be ok with a (properly thumbable) pda for the dumb masses that could be made to run linux, or an updated (still thumbable) z with "ubuntu for the dumb masses".

what features would i miss in those cases?  or which features would they have that the dumb masses would not like?
*


linux
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Dromede
post Aug 16 2007, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE(Meanie @ Aug 16 2007, 11:52 AM)
QUOTE(iwantprogress @ Aug 16 2007, 08:27 PM)
i think i'd be ok with a (properly thumbable) pda for the dumb masses that could be made to run linux, or an updated (still thumbable) z with "ubuntu for the dumb masses".

what features would i miss in those cases?  or which features would they have that the dumb masses would not like?
*


linux
*



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
nuff said.
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ZDevil
post Aug 16 2007, 03:59 AM
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I'd say choice and freedom. smile.gif
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vputz
post Aug 16 2007, 06:50 AM
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I will say that no device has excited me more than the OpenMoko/Neo1973. The base phone has pretty much the ability to do everything I regularly did with my Z, but the lack of a keyboard was a killer--on the other hand, the small device size looks great.

However, with the possibility of a USB host cable and the ability to carry around a small USB (or bluetooth if supported) keyboard if I expect to need it will probably push it as my favorite mobile device. I love the Z as a 'mini pc' but it has never quite lived up to that promise except for a few times (biggest block to me when traveling: getting the browser to click that "I accept the hotel's rules" page when getting a net connection; just never was happy most of the time).

So yeah, I'd say the era of the "pocket PC" as a mass device is probably over. I still think you'll see them around for some time in niche markets.
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desertrat
post Aug 16 2007, 07:03 AM
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QUOTE(Meanie @ Aug 16 2007, 01:33 AM)
marketeers prefer to market products to the general dumb masses that buys hype and have less demands on hitech features [...] and they dont mind their device being obsolete in the near future since they expect to replace it anyway...

Sounds just like the iphone.
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Cyberdoc1971
post Aug 16 2007, 08:10 AM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Aug 16 2007, 10:03 AM)
QUOTE(Meanie @ Aug 16 2007, 01:33 AM)
marketeers prefer to market products to the general dumb masses that buys hype and have less demands on hitech features [...] and they dont mind their device being obsolete in the near future since they expect to replace it anyway...

Sounds just like the iphone.
*



That could be the other thing that has been putting the final nail in linux mobile's coffin. Not trying to be a hater, but most of what I hear is how so much better the iPhone is than anything else...to me it's all hype.
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T3_slider
post Aug 16 2007, 01:06 PM
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I don't know much about the iPhone, but I've heard you need to use your actual fingers to tap on the screen (like the iPods etc.). Well, when it's -20 degrees Celsius up here in Canada, I REALLY don't want to have to take off my gloves to make a phone call. But I guess the wow-factor makes the dumb masses forgiving of stuff like that. wink.gif

[edit]Also, if I'm lying in bed trying to read information on some website while lying sideways (it may be far-fetched to some, but I do it with my Z all the time -- comfortable reading without having to sit up. wink.gif), I really don't want the screen to automatically flip sideways preventing me from reading the site without doing logic puzzles (ie reading upwards) or yoga (ie awkward positions).[/edit]
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iwantprogress
post Aug 16 2007, 01:24 PM
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meanie wrote:

> linux

but that is why i wrote "that could be made to run linux" rather than "that runs linux". the question remains hw: desktops started proprietary and now run linux even if they are made for windows. in principle pdas can do the same, even if they have not yet.

dumb masses pdas don't have the z's thumbability and size. there has to be a reason.

so: if linux is the only or main thing that the dumb masses dislike, as you imply, then what is keeping the hw from being z-ish and satisfying leets? (not rhetorical. really want to know the real reasons.)

sometimes these things are fashions led by self-appointed gurus, and sometimes they are economics and marketing.
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