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> [GUIDE] How to remove ALL spyware from Gemini! (Google, MTK)
graynada
post Aug 12 2018, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE(jakfish @ Aug 12 2018, 10:27 PM) *
At this point, I feel we should agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's a philosophical discussion that clearly can't be reconciled. Let the OP tend to the first post and update his/her approach with help from like-minded people and keep it there.

Because more important than even philosophy is the fact that we are a small community and we really do need each other's technical support. We're missing great chunks of information--how to reflash safely, how to get US carriers to work properly, etc--and none of us are in position to burn bridges over arguments that seem to have a thousand conclusions.

Sorry to sound so gum-bay-ya,

Jake


In the spirit of harmony and out of respect for Jakes's request I shakk not comment further.

Good luck with your endeavours.
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depscribe
post Aug 13 2018, 05:44 AM
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QUOTE(jerome @ Aug 11 2018, 10:18 PM) *
Google business model is not to increase sales of their products to me but to increase the sale of their advertising products to their real customers.

And it turns out that it collects information that we have not agreed to: "Google wants to know where you go so badly that it records your movements even when you explicitly tell it not to."
That from the Associated Press today: https://apnews.com/828aefab64d4411bac257a07...-like-it-or-not
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graynada
post Aug 13 2018, 05:53 AM
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QUOTE(depscribe @ Aug 13 2018, 02:44 PM) *
QUOTE(jerome @ Aug 11 2018, 10:18 PM) *
Google business model is not to increase sales of their products to me but to increase the sale of their advertising products to their real customers.

And it turns out that it collects information that we have not agreed to: "Google wants to know where you go so badly that it records your movements even when you explicitly tell it not to."
That from the Associated Press today: https://apnews.com/828aefab64d4411bac257a07...-like-it-or-not


So you not joining in the agreeing to disagree and leave it be then?
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depscribe
post Aug 13 2018, 06:23 AM
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QUOTE(graynada @ Aug 13 2018, 05:53 AM) *
So you not joining in the agreeing to disagree and leave it be then?

I guess it would take a Google fanboy to arrive at the conclusion that an agreement between himself and some guy named Jake applies to everyone.
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graynada
post Aug 13 2018, 06:30 AM
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QUOTE(depscribe @ Aug 13 2018, 03:23 PM) *
QUOTE(graynada @ Aug 13 2018, 05:53 AM) *
So you not joining in the agreeing to disagree and leave it be then?

I guess it would take a Google fanboy to arrive at the conclusion that an agreement between himself and some guy named Jake applies to everyone.


Whatever
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sdare
post Oct 4 2018, 09:05 AM
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Know this thread has gone quiet, but am bumping because i agree with the goals emphasized in two posts by OP & Jake
    * a Gemini PDA running close-to AOSP
    * more community-generated lessons-learned regarding fundamental gaps (ex: re-flashing, US SIM issues)

Keep it up guys!
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ehasbrouck
post Oct 6 2018, 07:26 AM
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QUOTE(sdare @ Oct 4 2018, 10:05 AM) *
Know this thread has gone quiet, but am bumping because i agree with the goals emphasized in two posts by OP & Jake
    * a Gemini PDA running close-to AOSP
    * more community-generated lessons-learned regarding fundamental gaps (ex: re-flashing, US SIM issues)

Keep it up guys!


With respect to a Gemini PDA running "close-to AOSP", I think the best chance for that is through a fully working version of Lineage OS for the Gemini.

I don't know what level of effort that may take form Planet Computers, but they need to do what it takes to make that happen.

People may use these terms with different meanings or assume different definitions, but I think "Android" refers to an open-source operating system originally developed and released by Google.

The fact that Android was originally developed and released by Google doesn't mean that it isn't open source. LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice, which was originally developed and released as open source by Sun Microsystems, based on an originally proprietary software package called StarOffice from another commercial software developer. But now that it is open source, it can be, and has been, forked, and could be again.

Similarly, open-source Android has forks such as Lineage OS.

It is possible to combine Android with proprietary software. Most device manufacturers pre-install a combination of open-source Android and proprietary Google software. I would call this package "Google OS". Many Lineage OS users also install some Google apps and services.

But Planetcom sold the Gemini to Indiegogo backers as a device that would have cellular data, SMS, and calling functionaity in two open-source operating systems: Android and Linux. Not Google OS and Linux. Planetcom never said that support for the Gemini hardware on Android would depend on installing proprietary Google services and apps in addition to open-source Android. There is no need, and no good reason, for Planetcom to force that dependency on Gemini users who (for whatever reason) don't want it. It's not a hardware dependecy, but purely a commercial or political choice by Planetcom. And it goes contrary to how the Gemini was marketed to Indiegogo backers.

As of now, mobile data, SMS, and calling aren't supported in any open-source OS for the Gemini.

I have no objection to Planetcom making available a Google OS distribution for those who want it. But firsn they should deliver the functionality they promised on Android and Linux.
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petefoth
post Oct 7 2018, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE(ehasbrouck @ Oct 6 2018, 04:26 PM) *
QUOTE(sdare @ Oct 4 2018, 10:05 AM) *
Know this thread has gone quiet, but am bumping because i agree with the goals emphasized in two posts by OP & Jake
    * a Gemini PDA running close-to AOSP
    * more community-generated lessons-learned regarding fundamental gaps (ex: re-flashing, US SIM issues)

Keep it up guys!


With respect to a Gemini PDA running "close-to AOSP", I think the best chance for that is through a fully working version of Lineage OS for the Gemini.

I don't know what level of effort that may take form Planet Computers, but they need to do what it takes to make that happen.

People may use these terms with different meanings or assume different definitions, but I think "Android" refers to an open-source operating system originally developed and released by Google.

The fact that Android was originally developed and released by Google doesn't mean that it isn't open source. LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice, which was originally developed and released as open source by Sun Microsystems, based on an originally proprietary software package called StarOffice from another commercial software developer. But now that it is open source, it can be, and has been, forked, and could be again.

Similarly, open-source Android has forks such as Lineage OS.

It is possible to combine Android with proprietary software. Most device manufacturers pre-install a combination of open-source Android and proprietary Google software. I would call this package "Google OS". Many Lineage OS users also install some Google apps and services.


My understanding has always been that 'Android' refers to the whole platform / package - consisting of the open source parts (AOSP - the Android Open Source Project), and the suite of proprietary software developed by Google (GMail, Play Store etc.). Wikipedia seems to support that interpretation. 'Google OS' is not a phrase that is in very common use, and I don't know of anyone who uses it to refer to Android. The 'Google OS' wikipedia disambiguation page offers the Android Operating System as only one possible interpretation.

QUOTE
But Planetcom sold the Gemini to Indiegogo backers as a device that would have cellular data, SMS, and calling functionaity in two open-source operating systems: Android and Linux. Not Google OS and Linux. Planetcom never said that support for the Gemini hardware on Android would depend on installing proprietary Google services and apps in addition to open-source Android. There is no need, and no good reason, for Planetcom to force that dependency on Gemini users who (for whatever reason) don't want it. It's not a hardware dependecy, but purely a commercial or political choice by Planetcom. And it goes contrary to how the Gemini was marketed to Indiegogo backers.


No. They sold it as supporting Android and Linux, and that's what they have delivered.

QUOTE
As of now, mobile data, SMS, and calling aren't supported in any open-source OS for the Gemini.

I have no objection to Planetcom making available a Google OS distribution for those who want it. But firsn they should deliver the functionality they promised on Android and Linux.


Planet's Indiegogo offering was a device running both Android and Linux, and they have delivered that. I think you are being disingenuous in saying they promised two open-source operating systems: if they had meant that, they could have used a phrase such as 'a free and open-source operating system, based on the Android mobile platform', as used by CyanogenMod and LineageOS which, unlike Android, are fully open-source. That may be what you - and maybe some others - wanted, but it isn't what Planet offered.

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jerome
post Oct 7 2018, 01:41 AM
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I also belong to the people who would like lineage OS or, at the very least, a version of Android without google proprietary software. I understand it may not be what was promised, but I also think there is a sizeable amount of customers who want just that: a small device with a keyboard, capable of connecting to the Internet and without google proprietary libraries.

Let us just keep focussing on making that happen. I saw the announcement from Planet about further Android development. Could we please have what is needed for a developper to package a version of Lineage OS running on the Gemini?
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ehasbrouck
post Oct 11 2018, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE(petefoth @ Oct 7 2018, 01:09 AM) *
My understanding has always been that 'Android' refers to the whole platform / package - consisting of the open source parts (AOSP - the Android Open Source Project), and the suite of proprietary software developed by Google (GMail, Play Store etc.)....

No. They sold it as supporting Android and Linux, and that's what they have delivered.


Google is explicit that Android is an open-source OS, and that Google services and apps are not part of Android:

https://source.android.com/compatibility/overview.html

QUOTE
Google Mobile Services (GMS) [is] Google's proprietary suite of apps (Google Play, YouTube, Google Maps, Gmail, and more) that run on top of Android. GMS is not part of the Android Open Source Project and is available only through a license with Google


Planetcom have *not* yet delivered cellular data, SMS, and cellphone voice calling on *any* open-source OS -- neither Linux nor Android.

Cellular data, SMS, and cellphone voice calling currently work with Android on the Gemini only if you *also* install (or accept pre-installation of) a proprietary blob of Google apps and services. But there's no good reason for Planetcom to require Gemini users to install (or accept pre-installation of) unrelated Google services and apps in order use their devices for cellular data, SMS, or cellphone voice calling.

QUOTE
Could we please have what is needed for a developer to package a version of Lineage OS running on the Gemini?


+1
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ehasbrouck
post Oct 17 2018, 02:20 PM
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In response to sanctions imposed on Google for violations of European Union competition (anti-trust) law, Google has announced changes in its licensing for Google apps that are often bundled with Android.

According to a post in an offical Google blog on 16 October 2018:

https://www.blog.google/around-the-globe/go...droid-decision/

QUOTE
First, we’re updating the compatibility agreements with mobile device makers that set out how Android is used to develop smartphones and tablets. Going forward, Android partners wishing to distribute Google apps may also build non-compatible, or forked, smartphones and tablets for the European Economic Area (EEA).

Second, device manufacturers will be able to license the Google mobile application suite separately from the Google Search App or the Chrome browser. Since the pre-installation of Google Search and Chrome together with our other apps helped us fund the development and free distribution of Android, we will introduce a new paid licensing agreement for smartphones and tablets shipped into the EEA. Android will remain free and open source.


This makes it even more clear that the proprietary Googleware often bundled with Android is *not* part of Android: "Android will remain free and open source."

This also should make it clear that Planetcom or any other company can, if it wants, support and distribute devices with a version of Android (such as Lineage OS) that isn't bundled with Googleware.

I understand that Planetcom may want to pre-install Android bundled with Googleware as the *default* on the Gemini. But Android (free and open source, without Googleware) should be an easily installable option for the Gemini, supported by Planetcom, for those who want it.
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NCI
post Oct 17 2018, 05:41 PM
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FWIW Planetcom can support LineageOS, or other form of Google-free Android, but they don't have to. We can't impose it on them. On the other hand, we can ask, in hopes they'll give up and finally give us what we want. If everyone interested in this problem e-mails them - maybe, just maybe, we can change the situation for the better. What do we have to loose, after all?
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NCI
post Apr 14 2019, 06:26 AM
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Waiting patiently for Android 8.1 to update the guide.

Guess this should be posted here too.
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